Abolition or reform? It's not just a question of messaging: it’s about framing. For this episode, I spoke to my old professor Peter Loge, one of the smartest political communicators I know. Loge did some foundational framing work that helped dramatically undermine the death penalty in the United States. It’s an example of reframing that worked, but it also had tradeoffs for advocates who had long organized around abolishing it. These same strategic considerations are impacting debates on carceral state abolition and criminal justice reform today, as well as the degree to which racial and environmental justice are integrated into climate policy.